C.A.:
Thanks for continuing to read my comments. I always look forward to your responses.
I agree that most people do appreciate the same things. (I think we have a lot more than that in common, if we'd allow ourselves to see it.) Also, I would argue that those things are the main concepts of religion, not magic trees or fiery burning pits. And while I agree one doesn't "need" religion in order to value truth, friends, love, etc., it teaches us truth, where to find it, what it does for us; it shows us how a true friend acts, who to have as our friends, whom we are to befriend; it gives us the true meaning of love, tells us whom to love, tells us how to love, tells us how we act when we do love. How about a couple scriptures? You can skip them if you want. "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come" (John 16:13). "A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother" (Prov. 18:24). "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13).
I have so many other thoughts, but I don't have time to write them all right now, and I'm sure you don't have the time to read them. But I do have a couple last thoughts on your comment. First, I want to say again that, in my opinion, those aforementioned values are the main concepts of religion, not magic trees. I could spend hours discussing the atonement, but it is too sacred to me to mention lightly right now. Lastly, I definitely don't know everything, but I really believe that there is no chance an all-loving God created a hell for people like you. First, I don't believe that God created Hell. Rather, if people who do end up in hell, they have created it for themselves. Secondly, I don't believe that you would ever end up there, unless you're not at all who I think you are.
All right, I guess that had better be all for now. Hope to talk more later.
S.E.
Hi SE,
ReplyDeleteGreat reply. You mention the magic tree. I would add Jesus to that mix. At least the Jesus portrayed in the Bible. I don't believe he was the son of God or that a God would require him to die horribly for our sins. These concepts are not logically sensible IMO. I'm not saying that a man named Jesus never existed. I think he probably did. It's the other stuff I don't believe.
Let me ask you a question: What moral teaching is found in the Bible that couldn't be found by an atheist like me?
You also mention how the Bible tells us how to live. That in fact, is one of it's biggest flaws IMO. It's outdated and doesn't allow for the changing of the times. Let's take homosexual marriage as an example - I think if it weren't for the Bible it would be legal by now. I think the Bible has led to many people believing that homosexuals are somehow evil for being who they are naturally. We have scientific proof that they're not an 'abomination' yet we have to fight tooth and nail against some religious people (with proof in hand) against beliefs that are clearly flawed. This has led to generations of homosexuals being oppressed and in some countries, killed.
This isn't to say there isn't any value in the Bible or other religious texts. I tend to think of religion as mans first attempts at philosophy. I also think a lot of people use these strongly held beliefs to gain power and money.
I also find it frightening to be told how to love, who to love, what to love, who to friend etc. That seems a lot like totalitarianism to me. And really, at the heart of many religions lurks totalitarianism. Even God in the Bible is described in those terms because he supposedly can see all and punish you for your very thoughts. If that isn't classified as thought crimes, I don't know what is.
I enjoy our conversations very much and appreciate you taking the time to respond to my posts. Have a great day. :)
Ugh. After spending literally an hour, and maybe two, on writing a response, I accidentally navigated away from the page and lost it all. I guess it'll be easier to write the second time, and maybe I'll be able to make it a little more coherent. But my internet turns out at 11:30, and it's 11:29, so I'll have to start over tomorrow. Mind if I right my response on my own blog? It was pretty long when I lost it.
ReplyDeleteSure, if you prefer to put it on your blog, that's cool. I can't access your blog or profile though. Not sure how that works.
ReplyDelete