Re: Totalitarianism Comment, among many other things

As afore said, I wrote quite a lengthy response last night but could not recover it afterward. I didn’t make a back-up copy like usual. After praying about it, and I think I have a pretty good idea why it’s gone, though. I’ll be a little more careful today.

Wow. It’s crazy how much there is to say and how little time there is to say it. There are a dozens of things to say that need to be cut down into cohesive comment. I won’t feel as guilty writing it as a blog post, though, instead of a comment.

So, I think the best thing to do this time is just to respond to each of your points in the same order you wrote them.

“Hi SE,” --> Hi. :)



“I would add Jesus to that mix... I don't believe he was the son of God” --> That’s your privilege. By the way, please be sensitive if we go any more deeply into the subject of Christ. I respect your beliefs and will try never to be offensive, and I hope you’ll do the same for me. I know you are separated personally and emotionally from these topics, but they are the very threads that hold my soul together, so be gentle. :) Thanks.

“or that a God would require him to die horribly for our sins.” --> Where does it ever say that God required Jesus “to die horribly for our sins” in the Bible? If memory serves, that is not what happened at all. Rather, Jesus chose to die. He had ample opportunity to get out of it, but he chose not to.



“What moral teaching is found in the Bible that couldn't be found by an atheist like me?” --> I didn’t really understand the question, and it confused me for a while last night. Now I think I understand what you’re saying, but correct me if I’m wrong. Are you asking me if I think that there are morals in the Bible that cannot be found somewhere else? If that’s the question, my answer is no. I mean, maybe – maybe there are a couple. But I can’t think of any at this moment, and I don’t really want to rack my brains for any. I don’t know where you got that that’s what I believed. Or maybe I completely misinterpreted the question. Where did it come from?



“You also mention how the Bible tells us how to live... It's outdated and doesn't allow for the changing of the times.” --> I don’t remember saying that the Bible “tells us how to live,” but, if I did, I hope that’s not how I worded it. I think what I meant was that it shows us how to live, shows us the best way. See, I don’t think of the Bible like a rule book so much as a book of truths.... Let me see if I can explain what I mean.

If you look up “law” in the dictionary, you’ll find three main definitions.

1) “the system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the imposition of penalties.”
2) “a statement of fact, deduced from observation, to the effect that a particular natural or scientific phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions are present: the second law of thermodynamics.”
3) “the body of divine commandments as expressed in the Bible or other religious texts.”

Of course, the third definition was made just for the Bible, but since it doesn’t tell us much, let’s ignore it for a moment.

From what I can tell, the first definition seems to be what you think of the Bible as: a set of rules about how to live, with overly-harsh punishments for disobedience. (And in this case the rules are allegedly levied by an omnipotent and omniscient being, so there is absolutely no way to get out of it.)

I don’t really think of the Bible that way. If I did, it would make seem to portray God as a control monster. “I’ll give you two choices, but you have to choose option two if you don’t to burn for the rest of eternity.” Sound familiar?

Instead, I think of the laws of the Bible like the second definition: facts about natural phenomena that always occur. If this is the case, as I believe it is, God is no longer the Narcissistic control freak. Instead, he’s a loving parent warning us against things that always have and always will happen.

Consider the difference between these two. They’re a bit silly, but I hope they’ll make my point:

Parent: Bobby, don’t touch the stove, or you’ll be burned.
Bobby: She’ll burn me if I touch the stove?! She’s so mean! I wish she weren’t around so I could touch anything I liked. If she weren’t around to see me touch it, then I could get away with touching it and not get burned.
OR
Parent: Bobby, don’t touch the stove, or you’ll be burned.
Bobby: Mommy’s so kind. I’m glad she warned me about the stove. Otherwise I might have touched it and burned myself.

Yeah, those examples sound even worse now than they did in my head. But you can see the difference? It’s not in what the parent says or the outcome of the situation. It’s just the way the kid sees it. That, I think, is the main difference in our understandings. You see God as the author of the laws and the punishments. I believe that the laws given in the Bible are as natural and immutable as any other laws of the universe. God did not create them anymore than we create matter. He just tells us of what is in store for us depending on how we act. In which case, the Bible cannot be “outdated” ever, anymore than gravity or F=ma can be outdated. All right...moving on.

“Let's take homosexual marriage as an example.” --> Of course, that’s just asking for trouble. But I guess, since it has come up, I can give you a couple of my thoughts. They’ll mostly just be my opinions, not speaking on behalf of anyone in my church. In fact, I don’t even know if I should go here. Ugh. I guess I will, but please don’t judge me or my church. This is just conversation, and these are just my opinions.... Actually, I think that’s going too far off topic. I’ll probably make another blog post out of it later. It’ll take too long right now. In short, I don’t think the commandments against homosexuality are outdated. On the contrary, I think they are absolutely as valid today as ever.

“I think if it weren't for the Bible it would be legal by now.” --> I’m guessing you mean in the U.S. Isn’t it already in Canada?

“I think the Bible has led to many people believing that homosexuals are somehow evil for being who they are naturally.” --> I agree that many people have come to believe that. I am not one of those people, but that does not mean I condone homosexuality at all. If a someone is attracted to people of the same gender but doesn’t act on those feelings, he or she has not sinned.

“We have scientific proof that they're not an 'abomination' ” --> That’s probably paraphrasing a bit, isn’t it? I’ve never read a study proving that. Then again, I don’t believe that they’re an “abomination” anyway. Nor should I. Nowhere in the Bible does God say that homosexuals are an abomination.

“...beliefs that are clearly flawed” --> It’s really hard for me to pass over this right now, but, like I said before, I hope to get into this more deeply in a later post.

“This has led to generations of homosexuals being oppressed and in some countries, killed.” --> I don’t know how to respond to this. I certainly do not condone such acts, and it makes me sick to think of its happening. But I hope you don’t attribute such atrocities to the wrong sources. Heterosexual Bible-believer ≠ homocidal or even homophobe, anymore than Muslim = terrorist.


“I...think a lot of people use these strongly held beliefs to gain power and money.” --> Unfortunately, yes. There’s a saying around here that goes something like, “The Church is true even when its members aren’t.” However, I think, or I hope, that for the vast majority, those who claim religion actually do believe in it. Sadly, some will do anything to satiate their greed.



“I also find it frightening to be told how to love, who to love, what to love, who to friend etc. That seems a lot like totalitarianism to me. And really, at the heart of many religions lurks totalitarianism. Even God in the Bible is described in those terms because he supposedly can see all and punish you for your very thoughts. If that isn't classified as thought crimes, I don't know what is.” --> I think I covered this above, but I just want to say it again. I don’t think of God as totalitarian anymore than I think of parents that way. I think any good parent will probably give their kids the same kinds of advice mentioned above, about love, friendship, etc... God warns and guides in the same way as does a loving parent.



“I enjoy our conversations very much and appreciate you taking the time to respond to my posts. Have a great day. :)” --> Likewise!

P.S. This was the first time, I think, that your comment was longer than mine. I guess I’ve made up for it now.